On this week’s episode of Call Her Daddy, Alex Cooper sits down with Sophia Bush.

Sophia opens up about her highly publicized relationships and her past struggles to trust herself within them. She looks back on One Tree Hill, the legacy of Brooke Davis and joining forces with her female castmates to speak out about the misconduct they faced behind the scenes. Plus, Sophia sets the record straight on her current relationship, clears up the timelines, and gets candid about coming out, finding love and finally feeling like herself.

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Sophia Bush on coming out about the abuse on One Tree Hill (29:36 – 36:05) 

Sophia Bush: Yeah, you know, we obviously, we all, the great thing about having such a big group. You’ve got your massive group chat everyone’s in. You’ve got your massive group chat of all the girls. You have the little side chats of like, oh, the three of us are going through the same thing at the same time. You know, these people are becoming parents. These people are going through breakups. These people are whatever. It’s what we do forever. And we all were always talking about life and things. But as we were moving through 2017 and the Harvey Weinstein story broke and Me Too really exploded by the way in the way it should and then they wanted to backlash it because God forbid women actually say, “We’re not doing this to ourselves.” If one in four of us has been harassed or assaulted by the age of 22, who do you think’s doing it? Thank you. And that’s by the age of 22. What do you think we’ve been through by the time we’re 40? like hello. So, we would as that was happening, people were like, “What do you think’s going to happen? You know, it’s been a while for us. What do you think’s happening on his new show? What do you think’s going to happen? What do you think’s going to happen?” And then we started getting, it was weird. You know, you’d see comments, you’d see things on Twitter, you’d see things on your Instagram. Sometimes you delete them because if you don’t then the comments turn into a whole other thing. And you’re not doing that to protect a bad guy. You’re like, I don’t want this to turn into a beast that’s going to bite someone else. Kind of a thing. Some things we’d leave up and be like, “Oh, well, we didn’t say it.” You know, you have to kind of navigate. It’s a sort of labor you do and you figure out how to do it together. And we had been tagged in a tweet that basically said like, “Whenever you’re ready, ladies, tell us about your boss.” And we were like, “Oh my god, could you imagine? Like, what do you think? What do you think?” And the hard thing, I think, for many of us was it’s not just my story to tell. You know, Hilarie says that in the portions of it I used in the book of our conversations. I selected little bits of them to tell the story and also frankly to let it be forensic because you know men are who they are and might say like, “Oh well you took that in a way she didn’t mean it.” So that part is very much like a forensic journalism section. And it was like, well, who do you think it might be? Because we all know what happened to us on the sliding scale of what happened to women on our show. I was like, “Oh, I’m like on the lower end, closer. I’m like on a I’m up to like a four. There are women who experienced him at a 10.” And it’s not my place to tell their stories. And so when things started really bubbling up and then our writer posted her thread about her experiences with her writing partner on our show, she didn’t name our showrunner and she didn’t name our show, but people could look up what they worked on together in the year and then they knew. And so as soon as we, everybody knew and the news knew and we started getting calls, we were like, “What are we going to do?” And everybody was getting calls, everybody on the show. And when Daphne, obviously, you know, me and Hilarie and a, you know, a couple of us were like on all the time. And when Daphne called me and was like, “They just called my agents. I played your mom. Like, I didn’t experience this with him, but they’re calling my team. What are we going to do?” And all of us knew some of each other’s stories. And it was during this time that we came to know everyone’s stories. And then we were tasked with this not tasked, we were actually sort of waited with the impossible task of how do we do justice and how do we not destroy anyone’s privacy. And Daphne to her credit, wise woman, she said, “If we did a collective statement, we can anonymize who everything happened to, but we can be clear about what happened and how it happened to everyone.” And then me, Annenberg, obsessed with the law, took a constitutional law class for fun. I was like, “I got this.” Because there are people who really like can’t talk about it. They are traumatized. And I was like, I’ve got my own trauma, most of mine doesn’t come from that guy, but I can do this for the group.” And it actually became an outlet for me to process the worst things that had happened to me in a way, I could channel them into this and I could hold everybody’s hands and I could literally interview every single woman in the cast and say in anonymized fashion, what words do what words feel okay to you? What words are not okay to you? Even with the things that happened to you, if you don’t want the actual word that defines the experience, what words are what words make you feel safer? And every ounce of love I’ve ever carried for any woman in my whole entire life was like dripping out of that keyboard. And it felt important because it was accurate and it was true and it was protective. And very often when our stories get told, we’re not protected. We’re just used for more popcorn. and then to put it into the world and then within a few days to see the response letter. There were 18 of us who signed our letter. To see the response letter of 25 women from the show he was working on at that time. I was just like this is why we say believe women. Why would we lie about this? Look how many of us there are and you still want to go, “Well they’re actresses. They got something out of it.” Well, like, yeah, I’ve also been an actress on a Shonda Rhimes show. I would work for her until the day I die. Love working for Shonda. Never had to never had to do this to get something out of Grey’s Anatomy. Do you know what I mean? Like, it’s not a requirement.

Sophia Bush on Hilarie Burton warning her not to date Chad Michael Murray (41:40 – 48:15)

Alex Cooper: And you do in this memoir open up about your relationship with Chad Michael Murray for kind of the first time in length. What were some of your just like biggest hesitations about sharing this part of your life?

Sophia Bush: The thing that’s a little hard to swallow when you share your life and your writing makes you a famous writer. People are like, “Wow, book changed my life.” When you’re already famous and people have opinions about you and you share your story, people are like, “Can’t get over it.” Da da da. And it’s a really weird dichotomy where you’re sort of not supposed to say anything. But if you’re a person who’s done the work to heal from anything, who’s journeyed through your life attempting to be aware, who wants to be accountable, who wants to grow, who goes to therapy, you have thoughts about how things that happened to you shaped you. And when I said I don’t want to write about it at all, my editor was like, “I hate to break it to you. Google exists.” So I think that’s like the second line in the chapter. And what felt important to me was to say we were kids. We’re older. We’re all adults. We’re all parents. No harm, no foul. Wish you well. Praise the adult you are. Hope it’s mutual. But as a young person in a highly pressurized situation, as a woman, I trusted every single other person in the room more than I trusted myself. And there were times when I called it and I allowed myself to be talked back in and I didn’t, I really just didn’t read the writing on the wall and I didn’t want to disappoint other people and I didn’t know how to say the hard thing when everyone else’s expectations were wrapped up in it. And I think we’ve all been there. But what I hope you learn is choose yourself, just choose yourself.

Alex Cooper: And I think also so much of what you do share, the themes within it are so also helpful as someone who is a fan and watched the show to understand what you were going through on that set while this was happening behind the scenes. The fact that you guys were having to interact and still whether it be love interests or friends on the show and this is all happening behind the scenes. It is very helpful to paint the story of your life and give us more insight into who you are as a resilient woman in very challenging dynamic.

Sophia Bush: To think that our boss who was old enough to be our parent was like,”Oh, these kids are going through something incredibly traumatizing. I’m gonna rewrite them together. Make them do intimate scenes together. Demand that wardrobe makes them be skin-to-skin to look naked in those scenes together.” Like an adult made that choice for two essentially two children. And it for me is just so crazy. And so there are lessons I obviously want women or anyone to have, which is if you are sure something is wrong and everyone’s telling you you’re crazy, you’re probably not crazy.

Alex Cooper: I love how you reference that because again, this is a theme I want to talk about, which is getting information from people, but not trusting yourself, but trusting yourself and going with your gut when you’re young. At the time, Hilarie Burton was one of your closest friends on set, Miss Peyton Sawyer. We love you. And she explicitly told you, I’m assuming when you and Chad started kind of clearly liking each other and people on set were seeing this, she told you, “Do not date him.” What was her reasoning behind this warning to you as a friend?

Sophia Bush: They had worked together on another show. Wasn’t a great experience. You know, it was good advice and I just didn’t, I didn’t have the, I didn’t have the wherewithal or the experience. There was a while where my friends used to joke like, “Look up gullible in the dictionary and you’ll see her face.”

Alex Cooper: How did it impact cuz I have been there. We’ve all been there with a girlfriend where they’re like, “Trust me don’t date him. I know his past.” and when you do end up being like, “Love you but I need to see for myself,” sometimes it can impact the friendship. How did that impact you and Hilarie just in general as friends?

Sophia Bush: Yeah, I mean, you know, it’s interesting because for years I thought that’s why we stopped being two peas in a pod. Obviously years later when all of us started to try to unpack our experiences with our boss, I was like, “Oh my god, this is why communication is so important because I felt so much shame.” And then she was right. And then again, about who he was then. I know the trolls are going to have a field day. Like it’s all good. And so for me the distance was like I didn’t listen. She was right. And that was it. Like I didn’t trust her. And years later, we all came to learn our boss was telling every woman on the show stuff about the other women, stuff supposedly that the other women were saying. And we did not, I think something people don’t understand about that environment is it’s not like you go to school with these people or that’s your friend or that’s someone who lives in your dorm. You have to do a job together. So, you try to never rock the boat. You don’t want to risk it. You don’t want to fight. But sometimes that means things go unsaid for years. And so, when we finally started to unpack all the really crazy puppet mastering our boss was doing, I was like, “Oh my god, I thought you cut me off over a boy.” And she was like, “Well, I heard that you.” And I was like, “Wait, what?” And that was when we started to be able to repair. And it is something I talk about later in the book, like this gorgeous thing that all of us women got to do together. And one of our other friends, co-workers, sisters in this crazy journey we took said like, “The thing I’m actually the most mad about is the years I missed being friends with all of the rest of you because I believed what he said.”

 

Sophia Bush on differentiating wedding jitters to something deeper (52:11 – 54:55)

Alex Cooper: I think a lot of women wonder, okay, is this just like pre wedding nerves? Because a lot of people do feel that, like this is the craziest day of my life. Oh my god, oh my god. And then there’s that versus when you’re like, is this a deeper intuition and my gut is telling me maybe this is not the person for me? And like how do you learn the difference?

Sophia Bush: I think it takes a really long time and there’s no road map for it and you have to find it for yourself. You know, you hear people say marriage is hard, but if hard is suffering, that’s not the same thing. You hear people say trust your gut, but how do you know the difference between your gut screaming at you and normal anxiety that you hear everybody has? I learned how to disassociate like a pro. I can’t make that everybody else’s fault. I have to take accountability for how fine I seem a lot of the time when I’m not and learn to be open enough to say no this isn’t minor I am not okay I’m saying okay but I’m covered in a rash from head to toe maybe that’s a red flag and not an allergic reaction you know and it’s taken me a long time to learn that because the thing that has been the most praised in my work. I can do a 110 hour work week. I can do 17 hours on set and be back the next day on a forced call and be on the next show and be and then fly on a red eye to go do press the next morning and fly back. I can do anything you need me to do. That is the greatest asset in my line of work. And that is what makes you a shell of a human in your personal life.

Alex Cooper: I was going to say it’s like it’s your superpower and it’s also your your curse because okay…

Sophia Bush: And it took me a very long time, probably until I turned 40, to go, I think I’ve been fine and good in a lot of time when I really wasn’t. And I can’t change that. But what I know is that I want to live I want to live the rest differently. I don’t want to look fine and be miserable. I don’t want to look happy and be struggling to get out of bed in the morning. I don’t want to be saying you, you have so much to be grateful for. Be grateful. Like gratitude is a punishment and not a pleasure. I want it to feel good. I want that for all of us.

Sophia Bush recalls red flags ahead of her wedding to Chad Michael Murray and talks being friends with women he cheated on her with (55:47-58:17)

Alex Cooper: Like I said, a woman’s intuition, it’s always right. You had a conversation with Chad’s groomsman or one of them. And you picked up the phone and you called this guy. Why did you even pick up the phone and call? What was getting too loud to ignore? And what was confirmed on that phone call?

Sophia Bush: Something in my brain was like, “Why didn’t he show up that day?” And then part of me was like, “But if he didn’t show up that day, he would have certainly called me to tell me if it was like about me, right?” And something in me was like, “No.” Cause also, how do you do that to your friend? Like that’s that’s a really sticky position to be in. And you know, to his credit, like when I called and asked, he was like, “Why didn’t you call me that morning?” And I was like, “If you make this my fault.”

Alex Cooper: So, what you’re saying the groomsman is saying, “Why didn’t you call me the morning of the wedding?” And you’re like…

Sophia Bush: And I just was like…

Alex Cooper: Because he dropped out. He dropped out of the wedding and he basically told you, “Girl…”

Sophia Bush: Didn’t tell me anything. Just, oh, he’s not going to make it, sick.” It was a special thing that he was willing to be honest. I wish more men were. And, you know, I also said we were young. Like, again, we were young. But what I think is the most important thing to me, and I, you know, I didn’t talk about this in the book. I wrote about um some of the friendships I made with women who I think the world would probably think I would never speak to, that I really cherish. And frankly, when I like look at the landscape, I’m like badass, badass, badass, badass. Like in pretty decent company.

Alex Cooper: Wait are you saying that the people that he was cheating on you with are you’re now like…

Sophia Bush: Oh, a couple. And it’s like again I know the adult we are, are completely different people from who we were but even the the child I don’t relate to that he was I’m like you did have kind of have great taste bro and like congrats you crushed.

Alex Cooper: You’re like no that’s actually kind of nice, you’re like yeah I get it like

Sophia Bush: I’m like I get it, like I actually get it and by the way like I’m open to all people. I’m like I get it. Hot.

Alex Cooper: You’re like actually I don’t even know if I want you anymore.

Sophia Bush: I know. I’m just like damn. Like in a lineup I take any one of us. So like okay.

Sophia Bush on her second marriage with Grant Hughes (1:00:30 – 1:02:44)

Alex Cooper: Something you also write about in your book that I think is again very relatable for women is this second marriage that you experienced with your ex-husband Grant. And you write about in the book ultimately like you realized you two were maybe better off as friends. And maybe you should have never gotten married. What do you remember about that feeling of like, “Ooh, maybe this isn’t right.”

Sophia Bush: I Esther Perelled myself to death because I said, “The smartest woman I know says you can’t expect what you used to get from a village from one person.” And I have more than any one person could want for their life from my community of friends. I overindex on love, commitment, service, music, laughter, comedy, creativity, spontaneity. Like I have multiple friends that are like, “Oh yeah, Sophia is my friend I can call and say, “You want to go to Africa on Thursday?” And she’s like, “Yeah, cause they want to go too.” Like I have it. And so in a way, and I and I don’t think I’d processed this yet either, I had closed off so many tender parts of myself in the years leading up to 2020 as I tried to put myself back together. So I think I think I’d really done like a number on myself and said, I don’t need so much. I’m okay. I have enough. and in the way that I had always gone left. Left hadn’t worked. I decided to make a right. And we had a big audacious project to work on that we were both really passionate about. And it was great. And I as much as we are not each other’s person, I will say I deeply admire that energy, tendency, trait in him and I can admire it in myself and I absolutely see how we mistook a melding on something really important as meaning it was important, that we were important.

Sophia Bush on meeting Ashlyn Harris and going through a divorce (1:02:50 – 1:07:20)

Alex Cooper: You began dating former US soccer star Ashlyn Harris.

Sophia Bush: Yes.

Alex Cooper: The internet had a lot to say.

Sophia Bush: Really did.

Alex Cooper: I would love to hear from you. How did you guys meet?

Sophia Bush: On Instagram in 2015. Like all all of the girlies though and it was cool. You know, remember how pure the internet used to be? It was like so nice and everybody was just big upping each other all the time and the team was playing and crushing and you know we were doing what you did then. Nothing was cringe. We were posting. We were tagging. We were like cheersing everyone and you know having a time and my best friend and I were like up at 4 in the morning watching games. We were living together at the time. Like we were just having fun.

Alex Cooper: So you meet on Instagram and then you randomly like you guys eventually meet in real life.

Sophia Bush: Yeah. in real life. Finally, in 2019. We went to an event that a bunch of women on the team threw and it was like an artist and activist luncheon and I remember I remember how fun it was cuz a bunch of us had met by then and we were like, you know, you have the moment where you’re like off the internet finally.

Alex Cooper: And so at this point, you’re going through a divorce.

Sophia Bush: Oh no, no, this is 2019. This is before I even started dating my ex.

Alex Cooper: I see. Okay. So, then we go through the divorce.

Sophia Bush: And what was surreal to me was as I started to be open about my experience with my best friends. I was like barely hanging on by a thread. I was in London alone. And I’m going to do a panel for a brand partnership to shocker, not shocker, raise money to get women elected and then invest in women’s sports. I know this shit like the back of my hand. I don’t open the email. I’m so sorry. Please don’t be mad at me. I did good on the panel.  I’m like, I don’t need to prep for this. I have to get on a plane, go and do this, pretend I’m okay, and then fly back and do eight shows this week on the West End and I get taken to this dinner and all my friends are there. I had no idea. And everyone was like, “Are you dumb? Like, this is the moment. There’s a whole women’s sports build.” I was like, “Guys, I don’t I don’t know. I’m here for 16 hours.” And it was such a gift to see people, but it wasn’t like, I didn’t have the thing that I think people know, which is like woman we know to be with a man, sees hot soccer player, says there she is. Like I didn’t have that. I had known her forever.

Alex Cooper: So Ashlyn was at that dinner.

Sophia Bush: Yes. With by the way, with 10 of our other friends. I was like, “What’s happening?” You know, shrieking like a sorority girl. I’m so lucky.

Alex Cooper: And when you guys were friends, like what was your understanding of her relationship and her marriage?

Sophia Bush: Oh, we weren’t friends like that. I wasn’t like in the inner circle knowing what was up. The other thing that I know from going through obviously not the same exact experience, but going through a similar experience and also having so many other women in my life go through it that summer. Everywhere I turned, everyone was going through it. like I don’t know. I didn’t even know the inside information on how she’d gotten there until everyone finally had a place to talk. And I think there’s a really hard thing about, there’s a really hard thing about the shame and when it looks really good from the outside and I know the feeling. I posted about how happy I was on my anniversary and I had already told my best friend I’m not going to be able to stay in this marriage and then I thought to myself but if I don’t celebrate this the internet’s going to come for me and if by some magical measure we work through it, it’ll be messy forever. So, the public thing adds a layer because you keep performing. You keep pretending it’s okay even when you’re not sleeping in the same bed, even when you’re living on separate floors of your house, even when your parents know you are not sleeping at all and miserable. Like, and when I started to realize how many people had been doing that, my first reaction wasn’t, “This is great for me.” Like, my reaction was, “What does everybody need? Let me connect everybody. Talk to my best friend. She’s going through it with a toddler. Who needs a lawyer? Who needs an apartment? Do you need my Amazon wish list for like kitchen utensils?”

Sophia Bush on becoming romantic with Ashlyn Harris (1:07:44 – 1:12:33)

Sophia Bush: There began the thing that happens where everyone starts sending the Instagram profiles of the people they’re getting set up with. A profile of a very beautiful person was sent. I said something uncharacteristically mean and was like I don’t like to talk about women like that. And I was like, “Am I okay?”

Alex Cooper: Oh, you were jealous. So, you’re saying like they were saying like they were going to set Ashlyn?

Sophia Bush: Oh, yeah. The like lesbian mafia in New York was like just sending the Instagram profiles. Alex Cooper: And you were like, “Wait, I’m jealous.”

Sophia Bush: And I was like, what is this feeling? I don’t like it. And then for me, it’s also like, well, all my friends are like, “You have to say something.” I’m like, “I’m not going to say something.”

Alex Cooper: But also, Sophia, you had never, correct me if I’m wrong, you had never been in a relationship with a woman?

Sophia Bush: Not a relationship, no.

Alex Cooper: So, how did you make sense of I’m feeling these feelings and then and then actualizing them.

Sophia Bush: But I think that’s probably why like, hello, is anybody home? It took me so long. I’d known her for so long. There’s no like, yeah, she’s one of the most beautiful people who’s ever walked the face of the planet. Like, we’ve all told her how hot she is forever. Like there was no like wow I’m really wow. It was more like do you ever have that moment where a group of people are talking and two of you say the same thing at the same time? It was that. It was like well today’s brutal lesson is blah blah blah blah and then like we’d both send the same text in response to someone else’s and I’d be like what is that? You know, there were really hard conversations about for a lot of us like what we’d been fighting for for so long that just wasn’t there. How do you rectify it? Why did you stay? Why did you double down? And a lot of our reasons for those things that like, I don’t mean to be rude, but aren’t anybody’s business, like were the same.

Alex Cooper: So, you were emotionally connected.

Sophia Bush: Yeah. And as the time wore on, I just was like, “Oh my god, is this like a, is this the invisible string?” Like, was I always supposed to, oh my god. And it was really surreal. And then I had to pace around my house for about 2 weeks. And my best friend who’s here today took videos of me being like literally you turned into Rainman. You were just like walking around the house going like, “Oh boy.” But I was like making sounds. I couldn’t, I like I broke my own brain.

Alex Cooper: Why? Cuz you were just like, I want to be with this woman? Like it’s almost like something just came over you where you were like, “Oh my god I’m attracted to you in a way-”

Sophia Bush: It wasn’t like, it wasn’t that. God this sounds so gay. I’m like it wasn’t just like that I was attracted to her. It was like I went like oh are you, like are you the other piece of the puzzle? Like does every weird little edge fit? And I wouldn’t have thought these puzzle pieces were related, but now they’re the last two and they click. Like what?

Alex Cooper: And so did you tell her this? 1

Sophia Bush: Yeah, but I’m a little bit of like a chicken shit but this whole like, “Oh must have like gotten drunk and had an affair.” I was like anyone who thinks that was a casual leap for me is doesn’t know me. Um, no. I was so nervous to like to say something to her that I did it at an event for a friend that I was only at because I was on a stopover on my way on a trip with my family. And I was like, “Yeah, I’ll do like a layover for the night, stay with my best friend in Tribeca. We’ll go to our friend’s big presentation. Like, we’re so happy for her. It’s this big moment for her company. And then I’m going to go get on a plane.” And I was like, “Well, I’m leaving the country, so, this is perfect because I’m leaving the country and if she says no, I can cry into my mother’s arms for 9 days overseas and come back and pretend this never happened.”

Alex Cooper: So, what did you say?

Sophia Bush: I mumbled a lot. It’s so embarrassing. She had to sort of figure it out because I was like, you know, “The group and so grateful and it’s been so nice to like have this and probably wouldn’t have lived through the summer without you guys. And these are so nice and happy for her brand. That was wonderful.” And she’s like, “Are you having a stroke? Like what’s going on?” And I was like, “You know, and it’s been so nice. Like the dinner we all had together after the big event was so lovely, but like and this is nice, you know, I’m glad I get to have lunch before my flight, but maybe we should just like have a meal not with everyone.” I’ve never been less cool. She literally was like, “Are you asking me on a date?” And I was like, “Yes.”  It was terrifying.

Alex Cooper: And when you went on your first date, were you as terrified?

Sophia Bush: Yes.

Sophia Bush on going on her first date with Ashlyn Harris (1:12:35 – 1:13:42)

Alex Cooper: When you went on your first date, were you as terrified?

Sophia Bush: Yes. I tried on 900 tops, but like, you know, it was such a weird thing because and I can feel it like, like my mouth is dry and my fingers are tingly like even thinking about it, my body is back there because it was this really surreal thing. I was like, I’ve sat next to this person so many times. I’ve like sorority girl jumped into like her and other friends arms at events and like charged the patriarchy and called about the things and congratulated each other on the life stuff that looked great online and I and and and suddenly someone I never blinked at I can’t breathe around. And later obviously we both talked about like it was the weirdest thing. It felt like we, It felt like meeting a new person. It was like every everything in my body just like clicked and I was like, “Oh, this is what alignment feels like.”

Sophia Bush on navigating public scrutiny when she first started dating Ashlyn Harris (1:13:50 – 1:16:38)

Alex Cooper: You step out for the first time as a couple, basically.

Sophia Bush: Well, no, we didn’t. I’m gonna be really clear.

Alex Cooper: Yeah, this is good to clarify.

Sophia Bush: You know, outing Brooke Davis felt really fun for the tabloids. And the only way to stop the monstrosity of it was to say like, I can show you this isn’t true. And my team was like, “yeah, see, ridiculous. They’re friends.” And I went, “I took her to dinner last week.” And then they said, “Are you going to take her to dinner again?” And I said, “Well, considering I feel like I got oxygen for the first time in my life. Yeah.” And then they said, “Well, we can’t lie. We can’t say none of it’s true. We can say it’s not true, but they did go to dinner last week and it was a date.” And then it was off to the races.

Alex Cooper: Can you clarify for everyone, when everyone thinks there was overlap…

Sophia Bush: Two people who had filed for divorce and lived in separate residences from their exes went to dinner.

Alex Cooper: Both of you filed for divorce.

Sophia Bush: Yes.

Alex Cooper: Okay. So, you can say there was no overlap.

Sophia Bush: I can say that. Everybody wishes they could have done a million things differently at the time. Like, do I wish that instead of flying home and stopping in New York cause I already had tickets to a comedy show and taking her on a date, I’d taken her on a date 6 weeks later. Like, yeah, of course I do. But I can’t change it. And what I can’t do is change, I can’t change my reality for anyone else. And I also can’t be my own personal definition of insanity, which is try the same thing over and over again with no result. I’m never going to change anybody’s mind who made it up. And I don’t as much as there’s like the part of me that was raised by my mother who was raised for many years in the Bronx that’s like you know Michelle Obama can go high you want to go low meet me in the gutter like there’s also a part of me that goes I’ve done too much work on myself to hurt someone when I’ve been hurt and I think especially when there’s children involved especially when when the things that run away because they’re fun for strangers. And that’s true for all of us. They’re fun for strangers. When they affect people’s jobs, when they destroy someone’s ability to provide for their family, when they, when they destroy someone’s credibility unfairly, like I I don’t want to be party to that. And that’s a really hard practice cause all I want to do is be like, “Here’s all the information.” And if you had the information, the vibes would be different. And what’s it going to do?

Sophia Bush talks marrying Ashlyn Harris (1:20:00 – 1:24:46)

Alex Cooper: Why was this something you wanted to like keep quiet at first?

Sophia Bush: Well, we spent so much time being quiet, you know, and we went through a lot of really hard things and then slowly life just got more and more beautiful. And a friend of ours was asking a question, like considering in a relationship with a new guy and marriage was really important to him and she’d been divorced and and we had this like conversation like how do you do it again and I was like “I mean don’t fucking ask me like I haven’t gotten it right but I would do it again” because I think, I think the thing I think it’s beautiful I think we grin when we talk about it like your eyes like go up at the corner when you talk about your husband like I think we have that because it’s meaningful and it was like sort of an interesting moment you know cause you have that conversation and then like you kind of look at each other and you’re like and it became a conversation for a long while and there’s so many there’s so many pieces and bits of it where you have to untangle what you got wrong and you have to really look at why you wanted it in the first place and what do you believe in and the conversations about what we believe in about her grandparents that she looked up to about relationships that I’ve been lucky enough to bear witness to in my life. I’ve seen it and I think the reason I’ve tried it, probably when I shouldn’t have, is because I believe in it so much. And then it was this sort of thing where it was a conversation for a really long time and it was like yeah well we’ll figure it out like tomorrow like next year I don’t know.

Alex Cooper: Wait, was there a proposal?

Sophia Bush: Yeah, but that’s for me. I did it.

Alex Cooper: No way.

Sophia Bush: Turns out I was never supposed to be asked. I was supposed to ask.

Alex Cooper: Are you proud of how you did it?

Sophia Bush: I am. And it was so sweet. And then we were like, “Okay, like let’s plan a wedding. Next week, when?” And it’s an interesting thing, you know, when your life has been public for so long. I mean, and hers longer than mine. Like you get recruited for the national team at 13. Like what does that mean? But mine, public teen television is a crazy kind of public too. And when you kind of recover from what the public commodifying you does to you, you don’t want it to happen again. And we’d both done the big Vogue wedding and the thing and they were beautiful and we really tried our best and we really loved those people, but we were not compatible. And now I’m with someone who finishes my sentences and vice versa who makes me laugh in moments that laughter feels impossible and in all the other moments too. And I just was like, I don’t need it. I don’t need to design a dress and I don’t need to plan a thing and I don’t need a destination. By the way, I love a destination wedding. Like I want to come to your destination wedding. But I didn’t need anything. And it was like the most perfect day. And my best friend was coming to visit with her kid and we were like, “Cool. So this weekend and you’ll do it.” And then her best friend came and we literally prepped food, put it on the smoker, got married in the backyard, had dinner, and it was, it was the best, most perfect day. I was the most in my body I have ever been. We sobbed and we laughed and it was exactly right. And I’m so thankful. And it was like the very last stitch I put on every wound that had ever had a claw in it that I was sewing up for myself. I was like, “Oh, yeah. I had to do all of this for me, but the last steps of it I can’t do without her.” And that was it. And I love her.

Call Her Daddy with Alex Cooper

Global podcast powerhouse Alex Cooper is the host and executive producer behind the top-ranking podcast “Call Her Daddy.” Since its launch in 2018, “Call Her Daddy” has amassed a massive following, evolving into a cultural phenomenon and global movement, consistently ranking as one of the most-listened-to podcasts worldwide. Alex Cooper’s thought-provoking conversations are meticulously designed to explore wide-ranging topics such as life experiences, culture, health, relationships, and more, through her lens of comedy and extreme candor. Watch new episodes on YouTube, or stream them on the SiriusXM app and other podcast platforms.